A disgraceful turn of events. We've come to expect "cancelling" from the Left at its most puerile, but seeing it used in this context, by these people, is extremely disappointing. I'd certainly have left the conference noisily, as you suggest, over this.
Bizarre. What he said is true... feminism was a very early Marxist innovation (started by Engels). It is clearly a gateway for Marxist thought to creep into the church.
In the ACNA, it seems that "agreeing to disagree" on whether women should be priests has become "Don't talk about it, because someone might get upset." Or rather, those who continue to hold with traditional orders cannot say so clearly, because women in orders might get upset.
I thought this presentation on Marxism and its offshoots was very interesting and I thank Fr. Calvin for posting it.
It is long past time when "two integrities" on women in orders is something we can't talk about.
"In the ACNA, it seems that "agreeing to disagree" on whether women should be priests has become "Don't talk about it, because someone might get upset." Or rather, those who continue to hold with traditional orders cannot say so clearly, because women in orders might get upset."
I pray that both Jeff and Calvin can reconcile in some way and possibly publicly. Maybe MA should have been clearer in their topic request upfront and clearer in why they felt the panel participation wasn’t best for the conference. Maybe Calvin shoehorned a bit of a deeply held conviction into the talk a bit disingenuously and reacted to the dis-invitation because he’s been shut down so much on this issue before. Both parties need our prayers for the Holy Spirit to help them to pursue peace and humility and love for each other that glorifies Christ to the watching world. Yes these are important issues but it seems this might be more poor communication than anything else.
These are hopeful words, but the very tenous bonds which the ACNA bishops have been trying to hold together are going to fail at some point, over this issue. The chief reason is that there is a core of women's ordination supporters who will not stop pushing for their position until it has been implemented at all levels. Then, ACNA will just be TEC 2.0, as many have said. Moreover, this issue will begin to unravel the global Communion.
I was delighted when, in 2009, I heard about the formation of the ACNA, but immediately dismayed when I learned about its decision to allow individual bishops the right to approve or disapprove women's ordination.
It was like being given a slice of my favorite pie along with a lipstick stained napkin.
Maybe they thought they were being led by the Holy Spirit, and perhaps they were at the time -- but it was the FiFNA bishops and Robert Duncan in the room where it happened.
Also that’s not a posture of superiority. Well I take that back, it is a posture of superiority but it’s one that cannot be helped. That’s being British. Seriously. Every single Brit I’ve ever met comes across that way. It’s as British as the Union Jack and tea. You can’t judge him for that, it would be like judging South Carolinians for having accents or saying Bless Your Heart.
Those "postures of compassion" are dangerous and obfuscating. Didn't we see enough of that kind of attitude back when the gay agenda was being pushed, 25 years ago? Accusations of insensitivity, even implied, put the orthodox on the wrong foot, and opened the gates for all the errors and heresies you see in TEC over the last 20 years. We have to listen to the doctrines of the Church Undivided, with our walls down. Else we risk turning from our Lord, ultimately.
As I have watched it for over 30 years now, women's ordination IS a cancer and an evil. It shows how deeply disengaged we are from the world God made, from things that most human beings knew innately for centuries, millennia. When I first began attending an Episcopal Church, a young Protestant leaving the holiness denomination I'd been raised in, I wondered at the historical position. I'm so glad I kept an open mind to what the timeless Church has to say about holy orders. We Anglicans can't "agree to disagree agreeably" on this issue for much longer. If we try, this deceptive practice will drag us all down off the Biblical way.
I guess I didn’t realize Luther had been canonized. If disagreeing with Luther is no longer allowable he had some rather uncomfortable opinions about Jews that probably should be addressed. Although I suppose those views have come back into style.
A disgraceful turn of events. We've come to expect "cancelling" from the Left at its most puerile, but seeing it used in this context, by these people, is extremely disappointing. I'd certainly have left the conference noisily, as you suggest, over this.
Good man!
Bizarre. What he said is true... feminism was a very early Marxist innovation (started by Engels). It is clearly a gateway for Marxist thought to creep into the church.
Hear hear.
My REC rector is in attendance, and of course he agrees with the Rev. Robinson about WO.
God bless you and your rector.
Thank you, Mark. I have written my version of events:
https://calvinrobinson.substack.com/?utm_source=navbar&utm_medium=web&r=9tsp0
Thank you! I have updated my post accordingly.
Bp. Todd Hunter’s response is most disheartening, and does not bode well for the Future of the ACNA.
In the ACNA, it seems that "agreeing to disagree" on whether women should be priests has become "Don't talk about it, because someone might get upset." Or rather, those who continue to hold with traditional orders cannot say so clearly, because women in orders might get upset.
I thought this presentation on Marxism and its offshoots was very interesting and I thank Fr. Calvin for posting it.
It is long past time when "two integrities" on women in orders is something we can't talk about.
"In the ACNA, it seems that "agreeing to disagree" on whether women should be priests has become "Don't talk about it, because someone might get upset." Or rather, those who continue to hold with traditional orders cannot say so clearly, because women in orders might get upset."
Yep.
Worth reading, Mark:
https://europeanconservative.com/articles/reviews/searching-for-ecclesial-clarity-and-richness/
Shocking but not surprising given the state that is Anglicism today.
Given the state of the whole church it seems!
Yes you are correct.
The Roman Catholic Church would welcome you, Calvin. There is still a home for those who speak the truth there.
I pray that both Jeff and Calvin can reconcile in some way and possibly publicly. Maybe MA should have been clearer in their topic request upfront and clearer in why they felt the panel participation wasn’t best for the conference. Maybe Calvin shoehorned a bit of a deeply held conviction into the talk a bit disingenuously and reacted to the dis-invitation because he’s been shut down so much on this issue before. Both parties need our prayers for the Holy Spirit to help them to pursue peace and humility and love for each other that glorifies Christ to the watching world. Yes these are important issues but it seems this might be more poor communication than anything else.
These are hopeful words, but the very tenous bonds which the ACNA bishops have been trying to hold together are going to fail at some point, over this issue. The chief reason is that there is a core of women's ordination supporters who will not stop pushing for their position until it has been implemented at all levels. Then, ACNA will just be TEC 2.0, as many have said. Moreover, this issue will begin to unravel the global Communion.
I was delighted when, in 2009, I heard about the formation of the ACNA, but immediately dismayed when I learned about its decision to allow individual bishops the right to approve or disapprove women's ordination.
It was like being given a slice of my favorite pie along with a lipstick stained napkin.
Maybe they thought they were being led by the Holy Spirit, and perhaps they were at the time -- but it was the FiFNA bishops and Robert Duncan in the room where it happened.
Liberals gonna liberal.
Also that’s not a posture of superiority. Well I take that back, it is a posture of superiority but it’s one that cannot be helped. That’s being British. Seriously. Every single Brit I’ve ever met comes across that way. It’s as British as the Union Jack and tea. You can’t judge him for that, it would be like judging South Carolinians for having accents or saying Bless Your Heart.
What are you going to say to Jesus? The glasses and mustache clownishness has an appropriateness I would have thought you'd have wanted to dodge.
I was hoping you might respond to my comment.
Those "postures of compassion" are dangerous and obfuscating. Didn't we see enough of that kind of attitude back when the gay agenda was being pushed, 25 years ago? Accusations of insensitivity, even implied, put the orthodox on the wrong foot, and opened the gates for all the errors and heresies you see in TEC over the last 20 years. We have to listen to the doctrines of the Church Undivided, with our walls down. Else we risk turning from our Lord, ultimately.
As I have watched it for over 30 years now, women's ordination IS a cancer and an evil. It shows how deeply disengaged we are from the world God made, from things that most human beings knew innately for centuries, millennia. When I first began attending an Episcopal Church, a young Protestant leaving the holiness denomination I'd been raised in, I wondered at the historical position. I'm so glad I kept an open mind to what the timeless Church has to say about holy orders. We Anglicans can't "agree to disagree agreeably" on this issue for much longer. If we try, this deceptive practice will drag us all down off the Biblical way.
I guess I didn’t realize Luther had been canonized. If disagreeing with Luther is no longer allowable he had some rather uncomfortable opinions about Jews that probably should be addressed. Although I suppose those views have come back into style.