"the orthodoxy and even Anglicanism of those doing the planting were too often not vetted enough"
Bp Todd loved to share a story - one I heard multiple times from his mouth - of the circumstances of his consecration.
I don't recall the details of his ordinations to the diaconate and priesthood, but at his consecration to the episcopate there was an old, retired English bishop. He went forward to congratulate and make small talk with the newly minted Bishop Todd Hunter, and asked the details of his confirmation. In which parish? By which bishop? On which feast day? Bp. Todd smiled knowingly and said, "I was never confirmed."
"I'm sorry?" the bishop replied.
"I was never confirmed," said Bp. Todd.
"So," the retired prelate asked, "you've just been consecrated a bishop in a Church to which you do not belong?" After this, he shuffled off visibly disturbed.
When Bp. Todd told me this story he laughed so hard he had tears in his eyes. He is an incredible student and teacher of leadership, a great planter of churches (although this statement could be qualified), but a reverent Anglican? A catholic? It wouldn't appear so.
Good questions! I not sure I could answer your first question in a fair and accurate manner. But the second question I might, maybe this morning in a podcast.
A lot of these "change or die" positions aren't based in Jesus or the Bible. I'm theoretically not against WO, but they're not based in Mary or Phoebe, or anything remotely related to how Jesus or anyone viewed women — it's an alien importation from politics. As you quoted Jesus, you can't worship two masters, you'll throw one away for the other. That's become more clear, but, you're right, it should've been tackled way earlier.
I believe that Bishop Todd Hunter was consecrated to the episcopacy in AMIA, and then he came into ACNA. Also, from my understanding, he was asked not to start a diocese, but to head up Church planting for ACNA, but chose instead to create a diocese that had no geographic boundaries.
I think you are right about AMiA. That he was asked not a start a diocese is new to me. How did he start a diocese on his own? I would think that would require approval of College of Bishops at least.
AMiA was under two substructures (both under +Murphy ), a one for and one against WO. the pro-WO was Bp Hunter. when AMiA blew up (c2011?) , Bp Hunter, initially followed Murphy, but later announced ‘repentance’ and he and his churches were brought under Pittsburgh, which assigned him to be a sort of “church planting initiative” that would plant churches and hand over to geographic. Instead, all the pittsburgh churches that were far from pittsburgh went into C4SO and it became its own diocese in ~2013.
I have come to see that the Church erred when it began confusing the roles of men and women in the family, and in the Church. This does not mean that women cannot perform jobs in the larger society which used to be closed to us, and do them very well. We can. And it was 2017 or 2018 when the ACNA bishops issued a report on their study of Scripture to say that there was "insufficient warrant" in Scripture for the ordination of female priests. Discarding Scripture and the unbroken practice of the universal church is spiritually risky. As you say, this is not the only cause of the leftward drift of the church, but it is a major contributor.
Another good time for a mass exodus would have been when it became plain that TEC leadership wholeheartedly approved unlimited abortion on demand.
"the orthodoxy and even Anglicanism of those doing the planting were too often not vetted enough"
Bp Todd loved to share a story - one I heard multiple times from his mouth - of the circumstances of his consecration.
I don't recall the details of his ordinations to the diaconate and priesthood, but at his consecration to the episcopate there was an old, retired English bishop. He went forward to congratulate and make small talk with the newly minted Bishop Todd Hunter, and asked the details of his confirmation. In which parish? By which bishop? On which feast day? Bp. Todd smiled knowingly and said, "I was never confirmed."
"I'm sorry?" the bishop replied.
"I was never confirmed," said Bp. Todd.
"So," the retired prelate asked, "you've just been consecrated a bishop in a Church to which you do not belong?" After this, he shuffled off visibly disturbed.
When Bp. Todd told me this story he laughed so hard he had tears in his eyes. He is an incredible student and teacher of leadership, a great planter of churches (although this statement could be qualified), but a reverent Anglican? A catholic? It wouldn't appear so.
What was the founding ethos of C4SO? Why was it stood up? Why does ACNA have non-geographic dioceses?
And here's your answer. Enjoy.
https://markmarshall.substack.com/p/about-non-geographic-dioceses-in
Thank you Mark
Good questions! I not sure I could answer your first question in a fair and accurate manner. But the second question I might, maybe this morning in a podcast.
Well, one of them is the REC, founded in 1873, which has geographic dioceses within it.
A lot of these "change or die" positions aren't based in Jesus or the Bible. I'm theoretically not against WO, but they're not based in Mary or Phoebe, or anything remotely related to how Jesus or anyone viewed women — it's an alien importation from politics. As you quoted Jesus, you can't worship two masters, you'll throw one away for the other. That's become more clear, but, you're right, it should've been tackled way earlier.
I believe that Bishop Todd Hunter was consecrated to the episcopacy in AMIA, and then he came into ACNA. Also, from my understanding, he was asked not to start a diocese, but to head up Church planting for ACNA, but chose instead to create a diocese that had no geographic boundaries.
I think you are right about AMiA. That he was asked not a start a diocese is new to me. How did he start a diocese on his own? I would think that would require approval of College of Bishops at least.
I'm not disagreeing, but this is news to me.
AMiA was under two substructures (both under +Murphy ), a one for and one against WO. the pro-WO was Bp Hunter. when AMiA blew up (c2011?) , Bp Hunter, initially followed Murphy, but later announced ‘repentance’ and he and his churches were brought under Pittsburgh, which assigned him to be a sort of “church planting initiative” that would plant churches and hand over to geographic. Instead, all the pittsburgh churches that were far from pittsburgh went into C4SO and it became its own diocese in ~2013.
I have come to see that the Church erred when it began confusing the roles of men and women in the family, and in the Church. This does not mean that women cannot perform jobs in the larger society which used to be closed to us, and do them very well. We can. And it was 2017 or 2018 when the ACNA bishops issued a report on their study of Scripture to say that there was "insufficient warrant" in Scripture for the ordination of female priests. Discarding Scripture and the unbroken practice of the universal church is spiritually risky. As you say, this is not the only cause of the leftward drift of the church, but it is a major contributor.
Another good time for a mass exodus would have been when it became plain that TEC leadership wholeheartedly approved unlimited abortion on demand.
Love your enemies, and do good to those who persecute you.
Do you wish to apply that to this post?
I try to apply it to everything, though I fail more often than I succeed!